Episode 118 Clean Transcript

Guest  Kerry Campbell

Host  Arjuna George

Podcast  Beneath the Helmet

This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity and readability while preserving the meaning and conversational character of the episode.

Welcome and Topic Setup

Arjuna: All right, welcome back. This is Beneath the Helmet. This is season four. This is episode 118. Today I'm joined with a sergeant from the Canadian RCMP, also a mindset coach, and today we're going to talk about something that we honestly don't talk a lot about, is identity fusion and identity erosion, which I think a lot of people will resonate when they start to hear and describe what those are, but that's what we're going to dig in today.

Arjuna: So welcome to Beneath the Helmet, Kerry Campbell.

Narrator: It's time to ignite your soul and unlock your full potential. Join us on Beneath the Helmet, the podcast exploring firefighters' health and wellness. Hosted by retired fire chief Arjuna George, our podcast is the perfect place to start your journey towards becoming the best version of yourself. So come on, let's join the conversation and find out what sets your soul on fire.

Arjuna: Kerry Campbell.

Arjuna: Welcome to the show.

Kerry: Thank you very much, Arjuna. Happy to be here.

Arjuna: Fantastic.

Kerry's RCMP Journey

Arjuna: So tell our listener a little bit about who Kerry is, and then we're going to dive into more of, your story for sure.

Kerry: Yes, for sure. So yeah, like you mentioned, I've been a police officer in Canada for 24 years. I've worked in three provinces. So I worked 14 years in Nova Scotia. Through those years I worked uniform, drugs, and homicide, and transferred to New Brunswick, where I spent 10 years in federal policing, international organized crime, national security, covert operations.

Kerry: And in the last few months recently transferred back to my home province in Prince Edward Island, where I run a provincial drug and organized crime unit.

Hitting a Wall and Finding Coaching

Kerry: So it's been, an eventful career so far, I guess, about four years ago, I kind of, I don't know if I would say hit a wall maybe a term, but it was just, I was really disliking my career and it was really, I guess, pissing me off because I didn't know why.

Kerry: I had always loved my job. It's I think a lot of us as first responders were drawn to it in a sense and, put everything, put everything into it. And I was actually planning an exit. Get into real estate, got my real estate license, and I was preparing for that transition. Through that I was introduced to someone who ended up becoming my first coach, and he was a mindset and identity coach, and I had a really vague understanding of what that was.

Kerry: But when we started talking it really hit me like this is kind of what my problem was, and it was all in how I, how I thought over years of what you see and experience as a first responder, and I'm sure you can relate through your career. And that cumulative effect just was making me have a terrible outlook, and I ended up doing a six-month coaching program with him.

Kerry: Did it for another six months and actually coached my boss at the time through a six-month program, and I just continued on with it. This was about four years, three and a half, four years ago. So for the past three and a half years I've been doing several programs with different coaches.

Kerry: And what really hit me hard was once I realized kind of the change that the career had caused, I like, it. I was able to identify it. So, and I really blamed myself for this and kind of how I was with family and friends over the years.

Kerry: It's just a completely different, perspective and mindset about it. And I kind of, took what I learned and what I have been putting into practice over several years and what worked for me

Coaching Changed Everything

Arjuna: So in essence, would you say coaching saved your life?

Kerry: It really did. The it saved me and brought me back to the life that I want instead of trying to, survive the one I was in. Because I have a on the surface I, have a great life, family, and all that. It wasn't that, it just, I wasn't, I wasn't there to see it or appreciate it, and I was just solely focused on, the negative aspect of what was kind of reinforced year after year.

Kerry: But, when you kind of learn that it doesn't have to be that way and you, and you can change that, now I get back to really enjoying my job and I'm a completely different person, now at home. I'm able to separate the two so I don't get that impact, kind of, at home with my family.

Arjuna: Beautiful. Yeah, I say that all the time, that coaching, honestly it might sound dramatic, but coaching saved my life. It allowed me to see there was more to life than the fire service, more to life than, just going to work every single day in the fire service, right? There's other ways that I can make an impact in the world.

Arjuna: 100%. And without that coaching kind of mindset, I didn't really see that. I didn't, I didn't know that was an option, honestly kind of curious, I, my world is very fire-oriented, the last 25 years, well, almost 30 years now.

Policing Culture and Isolation

Arjuna: Very curious, in the like, police industry or the police organizations, I'm assuming that confidentiality and kind of keeping information to yourself is probably the out of all the agencies, that's probably the one that stands out to me as, like, not secret, but almost in a secret way.

Arjuna: You're really not allowed to share a lot, right? So that must be even more isolating, mental health-wise Yes.

Kerry: Absolutely. You can talk to the people you work with, but like, that you. It's getting better, I think, but there is still that stigma that you don't want to appear, I guess, for lack of a better term, weak in a sense, or not capable of withstanding kind of the things you carry as a first responder, and for myself in policing.

Kerry: So a lot of times you just don't, and although you can get that, you can get past the confidentiality part through talking to a professional, like a therapist or a psychologist or is that, obviously they have their own confidentiality rules too, so that you can speak freely. But I'm not saying that it's, it's right, but I do find, in, with my background in policing, and I, and I think first responders in general, I think, find it difficult to talk to some of these people because as well-educated and trained, and they are, they can help people that, have a diagnosis or whatever.

Kerry: That's what they're there for, but I think if you haven't hit that point, a lot of us are reluctant to speak because, well, what I've heard so many times is that, well, they don't know what I do. They don't know what I carry. They don't know what I've seen. They don't know, kind of what I deal with on a on a regular basis year after year, decade after decade sometimes.

Proactive Mental Fitness

Kerry: Like you said, whatever it is, like whether it's coaching, whether it's, therapy or whatever, the point is to do something. Don't just accept that this is normal, because I know I did. As I was told very early on, this is what, things like this are going to happen.

Kerry: You're going to get jaded, you're going to get bitter, you're going to retire mad. It's like, I don't want that after going through a career like. And I think if there's one thing that I would say, it's normal for it to have that impact, but it doesn't have to be normal in the sense that we think we have to accept it.

Kerry: It can be different. It can change. You can prevent it earlier on, or if you're, you're years in and you're kind of going down that road, it can be changed. It's a it's a learnable skill. It's not a personality trait that you either have or you don't have. Anyone can, learn this stuff and put some certain things into practice to really change your mindset and not have, the more negative, dark sides of the things that you see and deal with as a first responder, stay with you 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year.

Kerry: Like, you don't have to carry that all the time. You can set it down.

Arjuna: Yeah. And I think you hit on something that's so important, is like that upstream approach. Do it before you start feeling these feelings of resentment, disgruntled, whatever that looks like. Let's, let's try to get that proactive.

Arjuna: Let's start year one. Let's start working towards keeping ourselves sane for the rest of our careers, right? Absolutely.

Family Noticed the Shift

Arjuna: So you started off with the sharing a little bit about your story about four years ago, where it made a huge impact in your life, and you saw. Well, people saw changes in you, but you didn't see it in yourself.

Arjuna: What were some of those changes that went unnoticed in you?

Reactivity to Response

Kerry: I think it was, like, I guess what it was referred to me as when I when I, started doing this and, talking to, my two kids that are, in their early 20s now, late teens when I first started doing this, and just being less reactive.

Kerry: Like, reacting to, emotion. Kind of practicing, I guess, that pause between, a trigger, something happening, and how I would deal with it. Like, I guess I would term it, like, learning how to respond to something. Like, if there is that trigger, it's a conscious thought. It's taking a breath. It's taking that pause.

Kerry: Even if I'm. You're, you're getting angry, you're getting whatever, feeling whatever, not acting through that emotion. Which, reacting is, it's, it's subconscious. There's no thought. It's, it's instant. It's based on emotion. Practicing that pause so that I can choose my response. It doesn't-- And it's not long, like we're talking seconds just to be aware of it, and I'm not going with the reaction that I'm feeling.

Kerry: I have to choose a response. And it just, it kept a lot of the tension and pressure down.

Emotion Suppression and Hypervigilance

Kerry: And with my family, they also noticed like I was very emotionless for years, and that started to change because I think. Well, not I think, as a as a first responder, which, you would certainly have dealt with like To do your job well and to perform well, at times you do push that those emotions down.

Kerry: Like, you're at a scene, you're dealing with something, you're in control. You have to maintain composure, you have to maintain professionalism, and I think early on when you're done with that and you go home, you kind of. Sometimes it'll come out then, once you're-- it's, it's okay to do that. But I think time after time, year after year, or what I found, it doesn't come out anymore.

Kerry: You just get used to shoving it down, controlling emotions so-- a-and then no emotion comes out. You're so used to it's reinforced so much that now becomes your default. And I know through my career, there's been many times, and I'm sure anyone as a first responder could probably relate, you actually get congratulated for, and the pat on the back,"Oh, that was tough.

Kerry: Yeah, you dealt with that very well. Yeah. A lot of people might have lost control there," or,"A lot of people went." Seeing that and dealing with that, families, kids, certain things, yeah,"You handled that well." It's,"Oh, well, thanks." you kind of subconsciously, it's like I'm, I'm getting-- And they're they're not doing anything wrong.

Kerry: It's just, but then you feel, well, that this is okay. Like, and I-- and at home I was just, very emotionless. You'd be-- I did a-- I had, I had done a post there a while back on, taking my kids to Disneyland and, supposed to be this great, amazing thing, and it was. But I missed the whole thing.

Kerry: I was just, very emotionless, but just on edge and that hypervigilance, and that was a big thing that my family noticed is that, Dad smiles again. Dad can be fun again. He's-- it's not like he comes home from work and you have to leave him alone for an hour because he just-- You can talk to him, but he's not registering those were the biggest changes, and in all honesty, it was very quick.

Kerry: I didn't notice it, they actually brought it up to me. Like, and I'm like,"Wow, was it. Is that what it was like for all these years?" And they're like,"Well, yeah." And what really got me is they,"Well, that's, that's just kind of how you were. We know it's because of your job." So they accepted, and that really got to me, that they had to accept me being that way.

Kerry: And I didn't know, I didn't know the difference. I didn't know. I guess I didn't really know any better really, because it just happened so gradually. It wasn't like this massive shift, it was just year after year after year. It was that slow erosion of, we may get into this a little bit more in a bit, but that slow erosion of identity, where everything just got tied to my job and how I.

Kerry: What helped me perform well in my job didn't really translate that well at home, where they now had to adapt to me being that way, and that was tough. So I was glad to hear them say that they could see me being different and when. And then I started realizing because I think they, people around you kind of realize before you do.

Kerry: So then I started to take notice, and that's what really pushed me to keep going with it. I was on the cusp of starting to understand certain things and starting to change certain things, but I was like, that's what kind of pushed me into a deep dive, going into this.

Arjuna: I can relate to a lot of the things you're saying for sure, because I experienced, very similar situations in my, in my career as well.

Arjuna: So I can, I can relate and probably the listener right now can relate to a lot of things as well.

Work to Home Transition Audit

Arjuna: I'm curious, how do you process emotions now?

Kerry: Well, again, at times when you're, you're at work, it's, it's still, you still have that to maintain that composure when you're dealing with very sensitive or traumatic things. You still, you still have to maintain that. But what helps me now is that, I go, I go through just small little, few minute processes throughout the day and when I leave work, I've just been able to make that transition from work to home, to not have my whole identity tied to the job.

Kerry: So sure, when I'm there dealing with something, I do what I have to do to manage that, to manage that situation, but when I leave it, then I do spend a few minutes just kind of doing an audit. Like, okay, what am I thinking about now? How do I feel right now?

Kerry: What's my behavior? How am I showing up to the people I work with, to the public?

Kerry: At home, I'm much more aware of how I am being and how I show up to other people. And when you do this, and it doesn't take that long, in all honesty, when you start, when you practice it daily- When it becomes your new default. My default was always emotionless, thinking negative, expecting the worst, waiting for the next bad thing, always on edge.

Kerry: Kind of monitoring everything, no matter where I was. That was, that was my default. That's how I operated at work, that's what made me good at my job. But through this work, when that happens, and it does, it's not like it never happens, but I notice it right away and I'm able to change because it's no longer my default.

Kerry: If that, if that makes sense.

Arjuna: Very cool. Well, you have, you have crafted a new healthy habit, right, versus, your toxic one, for sure.

Kerry: Exactly.

Identity Erosion Explained

Arjuna: So I think the theme of today is the identity fusion and the erosion, which I think we've just briefly touched on, but I think that's a huge area that probably affects a lot of first responders.

Arjuna: And as you mentioned, we're kind of, we're groomed and we're trained to segregate our emotions, and when we're on scene at a car accident, we are fully present there. We're not thinking about other things, and we are not showing emotion at that time.

Kerry: Yeah.

Arjuna: But there comes a time when we, switch and we go home to our, to our lives at home.

Arjuna: How does this erosion of self affect people? Maybe how does it, how did it affect you? Like, where did you start to notice that you were living a life as a police officer 24/7? Is there things that you want to share there?

Kerry: Yeah. I think when I, when I kind of first met, I guess my first coach and I started learning, about, kind of being aware of what I was thinking and going through some certain steps and processes, like, throughout a day for a period of time, I was like,"That's all I'm thinking about."

Kerry: It's all I'm thinking about, is what I, the stuff that I, that I did and saw and dealt with, like, what is it now? 12 years ago when I was in homicide. The like, some of this stuff is still on the forefront of my brain. And what was annoying me at work yesterday and today, and just the hypervigilance when I, when I started doing this work, when I started becoming aware of it, I'm like,"This has to change."

Kerry: And then when I started talking to my family about it, they're like,"Yeah, you come home and you're, like, you're sitting at the table and, like, back to a wall in your own home so you can view the front door. Like, you're, you're waiting for stuff to happen that isn't going to happen." And it's, and it just got to the point where it started, it started to cause problems because I could never relax.

Kerry: Like, I could never come down. At the job, these careers, they train you to be vigilant, right? To be aware. Like, you're always searching and identifying potential issues and problems, but there's nothing. That I've been through, and I would assume there's a lot of. Most of the first responder agencies saying there's no training to come down from it or how to set it aside.

Kerry: You eventually end up living and operating like that all the time. At work, it can help, in certain things. At home, it's not the way you want to be. And not that any not that everyone's going to, have problems with their, with their spouse or partner or kids. But a lot do.

Kerry: Like, that's the reality. A lot of people in these professions do, and it causes significant problems. And to me, when I first started realizing this, one of the big factors that made me kind of. Because this was getting, as a first responder, maybe you might be able to relate, this is a bit out of your comfort zone, learning this stuff and doing this stuff.

Kerry: But what really pushed me was the fact that I wasn't being the person that I want to be, living how I want to live with the people that I love the most. They weren't getting the person that I wanted to be for them. You have to do it for yourself, of course. You deserve it. Like, we do, we do a tough career, do a tough career, carry a lot of stuff, and every single one of us deserves to live a happy life within it and certainly outside of it, and we have to be able to set it down.

Kerry: And the people closest to us deserve to get the best version of us. I don't think there's anything better a person can do is to be the best version of yourself for the people who count on you and love you the most.

Arjuna: For sure. Yeah. I agree. It was definitely an uncomfortable process to go through for myself, and I've seen it in other, first responders as well who were brave enough or not necessarily brave enough, who are just going into that realm of transitioning into the true self.

Arjuna: But what I found is that it was just so freeing. So it was uncomfortable, but so freeing at the same time.

Kerry: Yes.

Arjuna: I can see it in your I can see it in your face that resonates.

Kerry: Yeah. It. Uncomfortable for sure, It's the implementing some, just some small things makes such a big difference, and you can start to see it fairly quickly.

Kerry: And the people around you will start to see it, and it's a great feeling. And you said it's freeing, oh, as ever, just to be able to consciously set some of that down. It's going to be there for you when you go, you go to work the next day. You'll, you'll pick it back up. You'll do it. You're, you're in this career because you want to serve.

Kerry: You enjoy it. You're, you're drawn to it. But when you don't get like a mental break when you carry that and you're thinking about it and visualizing it and, mentally you're at home, but you're still or physically you're home, but mentally you're still at work. This stuff going through your head, you're not present with your family.

Kerry: And just, you talk about, what potentially could be a road to burnout when you can't clear that from your, from your mind and from your thinking ever. Because I think that's the point where it can sometimes get to. Like, that is mentally draining to say the least, and eventually that's going to have an impact.

Kerry: What that's going to be, obviously that scale can vary, but, is it going to have an impact and not one that you really want? I don't know how it couldn't

Tools to Spot Erosion

Arjuna: So when we talk about erosion, it's, it's obviously something that happens very slowly.

Kerry: Yes.

Arjuna: Most of the time people don't even see it.

Arjuna: Maybe other people see it, but yourself probably not so much. What kind of tools or systems or supports do you think are out there that we could either encourage more of, develop to help people, see the impact of this erosion of identity? Anything out there you can think of?

Kerry: Yeah. Well, there's, obviously there's, there's, there's coaches, there's therapists, there's that, there's that kind of thing.

Kerry: But I think with, as far as tools, I don't think it's anything complicated. I think it's, like, everything starts with the awareness of it. So, if someone was to, for a couple of weeks, a week, two weeks, just. And I would write it out, write. When you try to think about something, we have, what is, I don't know the number, but 60, 70,000 thoughts a day, whatever it is.

Kerry: You can get, you can get pulled into, you get on a on a different tangent. When you write something out, that's where your focus is when you're. So writing causes thinking. So I write it out and I, and I do this fairly regular, and it's just I'll audit my day and sometimes just, a couple of times through the day it takes a minute to write out what have I been consistently thinking about for the last little while?

Kerry: How do I feel? And thinking determines how you feel. How you feel determines the actions you take, determines your behavior and your mood. I think that's fairly straightforward. I think, most people could, would get that concept. So if I've been thinking about negative stuff or, things that are, that are bothering me, or I'm in that mindset, I'm not feeling good.

Kerry: You don't think about bad stuff and feel good and vice versa. So I really take an audit of, because everything gets initiated by how you think, like what you're thinking about. So if you start to become aware of that, then you can, then you have a choice. Now you can choose what I want to think about, which determines how I feel and my mood and how I show up to the people that I work with at home, the public that we serve.

Kerry: So I think there's things that a person can do to start to notice, and when you start- I guess tracking that a little bit, you'll, you'll see how the erosion has, where you have gotten to as far as identity erosion. Because you're not going to be thinking on a regular basis about good things and, about your family and about what you're, what you're doing on the weekend, going to your going to your son's ball game.

Kerry: You're going to be. You're mentally going to be caught up with mostly the negative things that your career brings. And none of this is to, speak negatively about our careers. They're fantastic careers. It's just a matter of being able to put certain things in place to enjoy them, to feel that fulfillment from them, but still be present and who you want to be outside of

Culture Overtime and Balance

Arjuna: Are there any areas in our first responder cultures that are compounding this or supporting this fusion or erosion that's outside of our capability at the moment?

Arjuna: Like, is there any things that the culture is kind of just reinforcing this mindset, to be police officer 24/7, to be a firefighter 24/7? Anything that pops up for you?

Arjuna: The first thing that comes to mind is, like, overtime and stuff like that, where you're, you're pretty much living there all the time, or living Yeah

Arjuna: The fire station, or there's. I'm just wondering if there's things that you've noticed over the time that the culture is reinforcing this negative mindset of shoving it down, moving on, and not turning off when you go home.

Kerry: Yeah. Now there is, like, I guess as far as my experience, there is some- Focus on work-life balance.

Kerry: Like there-- more than there was when I started, my career 24 years ago. There is more of a focus on it and the benefits of it. That is definitely being provided. Having said that, everyone has resource issues and everything else these days. So your point on the overtime, it's, it's rampant generally.

Kerry: It's always there, and some people feel a responsibility, to do it Some people do it because overtime pay, right? But you can only do so much of that before it catches up and it's kind of counterproductive. Everyone works a little bit of it, but. So it's kind of, I guess, a little bit of both.

Kerry: I think the awareness of the importance of it is there, but how much control is being implemented to ensure that work-life balance and that kind of separation to be able to put it down is enforced, I think we have some

Arjuna: Work to do. Yeah, I think there's a lot of things that we can do as a person to live a better life and have more balance in our work life, but there's also a component of the culture of your organization that you're in is going to either help you make that transition, or it's going to keep you, keep you back, right?

Arjuna: So I think it's just a thought to keep in the mind that it's not just in our hands. There is some cultural influence, on that

Kerry: As well. For sure. Yeah. Yes, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

90 Second Home Reset Routine

Arjuna: So you talked about hypervigilance and, keeping your back to the door and everything like that and, your story of Disneyland where you're down there with your family and not really present.

Kerry: Yeah.

Arjuna: What would you recommend for somebody to be a little bit more present at home with their family? Is there some sort of strategy that you've kind of put into play that allows you to turn off?

Kerry: Yeah, like, outside of some of the things I spoke about, like I. When I go home, I sit in my truck.

Kerry: Before I get out, I do a few things. I'm a very big proponent of breathwork. Before I learned about this, I'm like,"Okay, well, I know how to breathe. I can hold my breath." Like, I didn't know what it was. But, like, and just two minutes? It's in for four, hold for four, out for seven, and that long exhale is what.

Kerry: And you probably are aware, that's what it resets your nervous system. There's a vagus nerve that goes up the body and it actually resets your nervous system. It lowers your heart rate, it alleviates cortisol, the stress hormone. I do start with that. I do a body scan just, like am I.

Kerry: Is my jaw clenched? Is my shoulder's up? Do I have that tension? And then I consciously say, and I even say it to myself, I choo- like,"I'm, I'm releasing this." Like, I just, I consciously choose to relax.

Kerry: And then I will think about three things. Three things that are real and truthful and present right now, and not vague gratitude, but it could be the name of your kids, picture them, the fact that I came home tonight, the meal I'm going to have with my family at the dinner table, and then I consciously choose to, I call it shift.

Kerry: Now there's something, it's a routine, doesn't matter what it is, something that signals you. The your subconscious signals you that when you go home, you are now off duty mentally, not just physically. That could be getting out of your uniform, that could be having a shower. It doesn't matter what it is, but over time, when you build that habit, you can build a habit to whatever it is.

Kerry: There's variations thir- between 30 and 45 days, for sure, doing it every day. When you are-- When I arrive home now, it's just automatic. I have that switch because I've been doing this for a while, building that new habit that I do that. I lower my heart, I do the breathwork, lower my heart rate, I go through these steps.

Kerry: It sounds like a lot. It takes 90 seconds, right? 90 seconds, two minutes max to do this, and it just signals the transition.

Consistency Builds New Wiring

Kerry: Now-- And once you once you start to do. And I'll call them simple things because it's just a matter of knowing what they are. It's not difficult. It's the consistency and the repetition of it because the identity erosion and the changes that kind of happen through a career as a first responder, it's It's the repetition of the things that we see and deal with day after day, week after week, year after year.

Kerry: It's the consistency of thinking and reacting like that causes the change, and why I say that we don't have to accept that's how we are just going to be calm because we can. We decide what we're going to think about and do, and the habits that we have. And when we consistently do that, then that is, that is creating another, I guess, pathway or it's changing the conditioning that the job has created.

Kerry: We can, we can choose to change that. We can implement things that change that programming, because that's really what it is. It's, day after day, year after year, you get programmed to think and behave a certain way, and you can absolutely change that just by implementing small things, but they have to be done consistently, through repetition because that's how the other programming was built over the years.

Arjuna: So true. It's. Well, once again, you said it's simple, it's easy, but, skill-wise, one of the hardest things is to, when you're building a habit, is to stay consistent, like you said.

Build Awareness First

Arjuna: What tools or how did you stay consistent? Like, I'm sure there's days you're like,"I forgot to do that," or,"I didn't do that," or,"I don't feel like doing that."

Arjuna: Just like we go to the gym, we sign up January 1st to go to the gym, and, two weeks into it we're going to the gym, and then week three we,"Oh, I'm not going to go to the gym anymore."

Kerry: Absolutely. And I, and I guess, yeah, to. I guess first it's, identifying what you want to change and- -. Habits are, I think fairly common.

Kerry: Like, habits are subconscious. They're, they're actions that we do that we don't think of it. The expert research say that 95% of our day is habitual. We don't think it. It's, we're on autopilot. So it's becoming aware of what we're doing. And like I've told people, like, everybody's day is full, but what is it full of?

Kerry: When you, when you sit down to implement something new, something currently has to go Right? So to implement a new habit, well, what habit are you going to get rid of? So what habits are keeping you the way you are? And it doesn't mean your life is bad. Not everyone's life is bad, it's just do you want it better?

Kerry: Do you want something more? And if there are things that are keeping you the way you are, it's-- I think first we have to get rid of those habits, change that. Then we can decide what new habit is more aligned with who I want to be. Like that.

Phone Timers Habit Hacks

Kerry: And so. And honestly, this is going to sound silly maybe, but how do I remember?

Kerry: They're just little hacks I guess you learn. Like I do it to this day. I just set-- I'll set timers on my phone every two or three hours. It'll go off. It's a check-in. Yeah Where am I at? Am I where I want to am I where I want to be or am I. And it's just, it's that it's that instant. I can, I can change it.

Kerry: As far as habits, kind of the same thing.

Consistency Not Perfection

Kerry: But for anyone listening, like nothing is done perfect. This isn't about being perfect. No one's perfect. You're, you're going to fall off. You're, you're going to go back to some old ways. It's just, you just get back on, and that's the consistency, that's the repetition.

Kerry: It doesn't matter, you're going to have bad days, you're going to have bad moments. You're going to go back to an old, an old way of doing things, an old way of thinking. The job is going to get to you at days, but stay at it, and you're going to find that what would have turned into a bad night or a bad week or a bad month might be a bad hour or two.

Kerry: ? Right. The more you do it's not going to be your norm anymore, so it's going to be easier to get out of it. You're not going to sit with it like you did, but it's not about being perfect. It's just about, like what you said, it's the repetition of the things that are going to change that programming, and sooner or later, that new programming is going to take over as your default, and you're not going to sit with that stuff as long.

Kerry: But it's not like it's never going to show up.

Replace Habits That Clash

Arjuna: I love the aspect of getting rid of a bad habit and replacing it with a good one. Instead of just building all these different habits, maybe it's sometimes a purge out the ones that are not being healthy for you, right?

Kerry: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, because they're, like, they're the ones.

Kerry: We are, we-- people have said we are our habits. It's, it's what we do habitually without thinking, that autopilot, and we're not even aware. So when we become aware, and just as a very easy example, if someone wants to become someone, with a good positive mindset, someone in, let's say, to be in good shape.

Kerry: But your habit every night is, to watch four hours of TV with a bag of potato chips. That habit doesn't align with that person that you want to be. Doesn't mean you have to give up watching TV, but maybe, you take an hour of what you normally do and do something different to build that habit to get you to be the person you want to be.

Kerry: Does that make sense? Yep. It's just acknowledging what's keeping you where you at, where you're at, trying to, get rid of that or minimize that by being aware of it first and choosing different, and doing it every day. If you fall off, that's okay.

Arjuna: Yep.

Kerry: Don't beat yourself up, just get back on. Okay.

Kerry: The more you do it, the easier it gets.

Start Small With Change

Arjuna: And like you said, it's. And I know lots of, like James Clear talks about it in Atomic Habits of doing it small. Do break it down to small things. So if your bad habit is watching TV for four hours eating a bag of chips, maybe do it for two hours, and then have success on that, and then go down to an hour, so.

Kerry: 100%,

Arjuna: It'Going cold turkey on anything is a little dodgy.

Kerry: No, it's absolutely. It's not these big drastic changes- Yep. And moves. It's just we. When we have these kind of, I guess, negative effects from our careers, it happened slowly over time. Yeah. So we're just trying to create that new conditioning slowly over time.

Kerry: I can honestly say it doesn't take as much time to change it as it did to create it.

Arjuna: Good to hear.

Transitioning Back To Work

Arjuna: So I'm curiousUm, transitions are something that we talk about quite often. We've had other discussions on the podcast about transitions and how powerful they are. I'm curious how you transition back to work, because I think that's also a component that we don't talk about very often is leaving family life and going to work, and how to mentally transition into that.

Arjuna: Any tips or strategies that you have for that? I

Kerry: I think I find, because that's, I've been doing this a long time, - I haven't really found that transition, I guess, a challenge. I just think like when I, when I show up at work, I know what my job is. So I can I haven't found it difficult to transition back into that, but I don't transition back into who I was because my mindset hasn't changed, right?

Kerry: How I, when something happens at work, yes, the you have to be composed as far as your emotion goes. But what happens, I don't perceive it in the same way. And that doesn't mean, at a scene or something. That could just be inner office stuff. Not getting this, not getting the promotion, whatever it is.

Kerry: Things that at one time would've really set you back and really put you in a in a down spiral. When we all know when you get that negative thinking going, it spirals, and an hour later you're thinking about something that has no connection to where this started. You just, you just spiral and everything's negative.

Kerry: That doesn't impact me like that anymore. Even if it does very, for a very short period of time, I get at it like, we say like, two, whether it's police officers or whatever, can go to a scene and they walk out with completely different thoughts of what happened, because it's all how we, our perception on how we interpret what we, what we see and how we choose to deal with.

Kerry: Someone could deal with it in a way that's going to send them down, a spiral, and another one is,"Okay, I did, I did what I could with the information I had. I did the best job that I could. I didn't get the outcome that I wanted. I wish this would've been different, but I know I did everything that I could," and move on.

Kerry: In a career in, as a first responder, the things that you, the calls that you go to, you couldn't add those up. You can't carry everything from everything that you deal with. You can't carry every outcome that you didn't want, every outcome that you thought should've been better.

Kerry: But so yeah, I never, or I don't really find the transition going from home to work a problem, but I don't go to work as the same person that I used to be. So that's what, that's why I'm still in my career whereas, four years ago I was planning an exit because it changes everything

Turning Off The Identity

Arjuna: So I'm curious if the first responder world, so police, fire, ambulance, learned how to turn off and avoid this identity 24/7, what would change in the first responder world, do you think? What impacts would we see in a good way if people learned how to turn off?

Kerry: Well, you're not, well, you're not going to see, the burnout rate, the operational stress injury, people being off, which is, has a big impact on the departments and the agencies with retention and having people at work that, have a different mental outlook and they want to be there.

Kerry: They're not carrying all this cumulative stress. It doesn't mean the job's not going to be stressful. Of course it is, for sure. And the impact on the home life when you're not carrying all that trauma and stress into your house, and that hypervigilance, when you can separate that- And actually, be present with your family.

Kerry: So I look at it in three ways, like your family of course, you're, you're not carrying that. You can, you can set the job down and enjoy life outside of it. It shouldn't impact every part of your life. It, the job is what we choose to do. It's not your identity. It's not who you are as a person. It's a very important and meaningful job, but it is what you do, and that's where it needs to stay.

Kerry: And the people you work with, can you imagine if, showing up with a much more positive mindset and outlook, and energized because you've actually had a break. When your mind never shuts off from this, you don't, you never get a break from it, you just get drained. And I think for, again, for whatever first responder agency, it's, the public that you serve.

Kerry: When you're showing up as a better version of yourself in the public, I can see, and maybe that's more so in the policing world, I can see a lot of issues, getting lessened in interactions with the public. May, maybe more so on the policing side. But, having people out there with a different, a different view, a different outlook, being, not carrying all the stress that they had yesterday or last night or last week, they're showing up having had a break.

Kerry: You just deal with people different. You, how you show up is different. So I think on, like, on three heads I think it has a has a big impact.

Arjuna: And yeah, can you just imagine the first responder world that has all those components? That sound, that sounds like a lot of bonuses for, a little bit of mindset shift really in the big scheme of things.

Arjuna: Small shift with a big reward at the end. Absolutely. Longevity, healthy, all these different things, right? Absolutely. I think it just showcases the power of turning off, I think is so critical, and that was one of my issues in my career is I didn't turn off and I burned out, and I had to leave the fire service, and that's not, that was not my plan.

Kerry: No.

Arjuna: So.

Retirement And Identity Loss

Kerry: Well, I was almost there with you. I just found the right thing at the right time. But yeah, like I hate the thoughts of somebody going through a great career, but an incredibly challenging and can be very difficult career with what you, what you deal with, and leaving on those terms.

Kerry: Like leaving because really you have to, or you don't have a choice. And I've talked to a number of people who are retired and, about identity fusion and identity being touched, and they're like,"I still have a lot of trouble dealing with this, and I've been retired for five years." Because when they retired, they didn't know who they were.

Kerry: They- the uniform got hung up and now it's like,"Who am I? What do I do?" And they have a very hard time, because now they don't have that, and their entire identity was that for 25 or 30 years. I think that's. It's terrible, to put in what you've put in and leave like that.

Kerry: Everyone leaves, but to be able to leave when you choose to on your terms and look back at an incredible career, like that's how I want to go. And, I know that's how I will, when I, when I decide to.

Policing As A Job

Arjuna: Curious, did you ever go from the mindset of policing is my calling, is my everything, to more of mindset of policing is a job?

Arjuna: Is that how you see it now?

Kerry: It is how I see it now. For sure. Oh yeah, for 20 years that's what it was. And because that's how I see it now, that doesn't mean that I lose, the pride in it of what I do and what every other first responder does. Not at all. Not one ounce. It's just, it's not everything- And I had a hard time with that to start, but you do come to the determination that I had.

Kerry: There is life and enjoyment and things that I want to do and how I want to be, for people outside of it, and I actually find I am better at my job. I show up better. I deal with people better. I can tolerate stress and things that I don't like that happens at work better because I can separate it, because I'm not carrying it into every area of my life every single day.

Kerry: When I show up, I have better energy to start my, to start my shift. So I actually find it made me better at my job.

Arjuna: Yep. I agree, Kerry. And I know talking to a lot of, either people that are, first responders across the world, they struggle with that mindset shift to go to a job because they've always been ingrained that this is more than a job, and this is the best job in the world.

Arjuna: We talk about it all the time, right? And, but it is a job. When you and as hard as it is to hear, it's a number. When you retire, somebody's going to fill your spot, probably going to do the job just as good, if not better than you did.

Kerry: Yeah.

Arjuna: We're, we're not that special.

Kerry: No. And there's nothing wrong with thinking like this No

The best job in the world, but

Arjuna: Totally.

Kerry: It's a job. Like you said, it's, it's a job. Like, yeah you're, you chose a great career. It's, it's, it's incredibly fulfilling, rewarding service. Like, we are draw. I think everyone is, in some sense, is drawn to it in a certain way for various reasons, but, it is a fantastic job.

Kerry: Yeah. Right? 100%, I love my job. And when I leave it, I'm, I'm still going to have loved it, but it's, it's, I'm going to be, I'm going to be able to. It's not going to be easy, when that time comes, just like everybody says, it's the people and all that, the camaraderie. And, but yes, I separate.

Kerry: Being able to separate from it as much as I was devoted to it, and it was everything, has been, has been better for it and outside it.

Arjuna: Yeah. Good for you.

Dont Wait For Rock Bottom

Arjuna: So I'm curious, Kerry, is there a question that you wish I asked you that I haven't asked you?

Kerry: Arjuna. I think we covered a lot. One thing that I would say is that For anyone you don't have to wait to hit a rock bottom to make meaningful change. Like, I didn't. I didn't hit a rock bottom where everything just fell apart, because when that happens, unfortunately, that's like you notice, everyone around you notices.

Kerry: You have a choice if you're going to keep getting this worse or are you going to get help or you're going to, you're you're going to do something. When you don't have that rock bottom where you, everyone notices, including you, a lot of times you don't. Nothing gets done. You accept the way things are, but you don't have to.

Kerry: You can start making meaningful change for your career, I would say more importantly for your family and everyone else around you that you love and that loves you. Don't wait for it to get to that point. And for some people, that doesn't happen. But with that identity fusion to the job, it's going to.

Kerry: It comes with an impact, it. Right? So just don't wait till it, things get really bad and, marriages have issues and, trouble with kids, like all the worst things that you can think of. Doesn't have to get to that point to change, and it shouldn't. Yeah, you don't.

Kerry: All you have to do is want something better, and it doesn't mean that it's bad. It just, do you want to be, do you want to be better? Do you want to show up better for yourself and for the people around you? That's all it takes, is to acknowledge that, and you absolutely can do it.

Arjuna: Well, you definitely gave, people a lot to think about and how to change their own mindset.

Arjuna: Because really you could do this by yourself, or you can do it with the assistance of a coach or a therapist or a good friend or whatever that looks like, but it is also a skill that you could do by yourself with intention, right?

Kerry: Yeah. And

Arjuna: Change your whole life. Yeah.

Kerry: 100%, like learn- just learning these things to put into your daily life consistently can make drastic change.

Kerry: So it just depends on where a person wants to go with it.

Set Aiming Goals Daily

Kerry: I also think, as first responders, we're, we're on that autopilot, that hamster wheel, and sometimes we lose I know I did, you lose sight of where I want my life to go within my career and outside of it.

Kerry: Like to have a to have an aim or a goal or an ideal or something Work towards. I find we get into that, just that daily motion of, our careers and dealing with things we deal with, come home, try to relax if you can, and then back at it. If that'd be just the one thing that I would add is just to decide who you want to be within your career and outside of it.

Kerry: What kind of person do you want to be? Like, what, where do you want to be when you retire? Who, and take steps in that direction on a regular basis. There's nothing better than to wake up in the morning working towards something. To know who I want to be, to know the changes I want to make in my life for the better for me and my family, and to take positive motion towards that on a regular basis.

Kerry: It's a great feel.

Arjuna: 100%. Yep. We are in control.

Kerry: Yep.

Shift Point Coaching Program

Arjuna: So how can people learn more about your coaching services? Maybe touch on your coaching service as well as how can they reach out to you if they want to connect with you, Kerry?

Kerry: On social media for sure. I take, I. People get ahold of me by email.

Kerry: I give my. These are first responders that I talk to. I give anyone my personal cell number. Like, it's just, that's just the that's just the way it is no matter where you are in the world. There's that, there's that connection and trust.

Kerry: My full program is built. I'm just getting it onto a platform with, videos and all that stuff, so I'm just in the process of that. So I'm just kind of manually doing things right now, but it's just in the process. Someone's building that for me in the background, but yeah, that's called,

Arjuna: That's called Shift Point, right?

Kerry: Yes.

Arjuna: Yes. Cool.

Kerry: Yeah.

Arjuna: Maybe what's, what's the theme of Shift Point like, just for the listener?

Nine Pillars Breakdown

Kerry: I guess the main theme Shifting, again, it's, it's shifting your identity, but it's a very structured process. There's nine pillars. There's attitude, which is, what you think controls how you feel, controls how you act.

Kerry: There is one on goals and setting an aim for your life, personally and professionally. There is work on paradigm, which is your subconscious, your belief system, and habits that control your results. There's a pillar on reacting versus responding. There's one on self-image, and what I, what I say, and I know, people that I've worked with said, like, you can't out-perform yourself image is kind of that point with the with the potato chips.

Kerry: If this is who you want to be, you have to align your thinking, your actions, and your habits to what this person would do. They-- you can't, like, doing the same thing every day, expecting different result. The definition of insanity. We've all heard that. You have to be able to change that.

Kerry: Then there's positive mindset, mental reframing. There is the power of letting go, a pillar on a successful life, and the application and integration blueprint telling you how to implement all this at the end would be the ninth pillar. So it is a very structured process. It's a 12-week program, with, a video for each pillar, a workbook, and there's, weekly coaching calls.

Group Vs One On One

Arjuna: Is this a group setting or is this an individual client?

Kerry: It really, it really depends on the person. I do both. Okay. I think there's a-- one-on-one, obviously there's a benefit to that, but I think because we all come from a similar world, in our careers as first responders, there's different roles obviously, but then there's also a benefit to hearing from other people.

Kerry: I've, I've done both. I've done one-on-one coaching as a client myself, and I have done group, over the last several years, and I don't know if I could say that one is better than the other. But the group session, you can hear things that you might not have thought of. You can hear perspectives that you might not have thought of.

Kerry: But again, the one-on-one, you get that direct, more close access and, some people might not feel like, doing this with a group of people. And maybe you develop into maybe moving into a group setting afterwards. Yeah. I like that

Final Takeaways And Wrap

Arjuna: Well, thank you so much for, kind of your inspiring conversation.

Arjuna: Like, because, I think from four years to today, I'm assuming if we chatted four years ago, you'd be a different person than I'd see on the screen right now. Yeah. And so that just shows you the power of building habits, the power of, awareness, the power of working on yourself one step at a time, right?

Arjuna: So in four short years, you unraveled, and I'm sure it's still a work in progress, but you unraveled a lot of the 24 or 20 years of stress, tension, holding it in. So that just shows the power of it. So just wanted to acknowledge that, you put the work in and it obviously, changed your life.

Arjuna: So kudos to you.

Kerry: No, thank you, Arjuna. I appreciate that. And just for one final note, it doesn't take four years to do this. That's, that was just, my process and I just, got heavily involved and knew that I wanted to, do as much as I could, learn as much as I could to help others.

Kerry: That's kind of why I did the deep dive, but it doesn't take four years to make drastic change if a person was inclined to do so. For

Arjuna: Sure. Yeah, I think it's probably something you're going to work on for the rest of your life, right? Just like

Kerry: It's daily. Yeah. It is a habit. And, a very good one, for sure.

Kerry: Yeah.

Arjuna: Beautiful. Well, thank you for sharing that with the world. Thank you for continuing your service in the RCMP, even though that was a touch and go for a bit. And, -. I'm glad you found your true self, so kudos to you. Thank you. All right, everyone. Hopefully you enjoy this great episode. Until next time, stay well.

Arjuna: All right, that's a wrap.

Arjuna: Thank you for tuning in to Beneath the Helmet. We hope that this podcast has provided you with valuable insights into the world of firefighters' health and wellness. Remember, caring for your physical, mental, and spiritual well-being is crucial to achieving optimal performance. Join us next time on Beneath the Helmet for more inspiring conversations.

Arjuna: Until then, stay well.