Beneath the Helmet

Season 4, Episode 101
Guest: Annette Zapp

[00:00:00]

All right. Welcome back everyone. This is Beneath the Helmet. This is actually Season Four, Episode 101. Today I’ve got a retired Lieutenant Fire Officer and also the owner of Fire Rescue Wellness. Please welcome Annette Zapp to the air today.

It is time to ignite your soul and unlock your full potential. Join us on Beneath the Helmet, the podcast exploring firefighters’ health and wellness. Hosted by Retired Fire Chief Arjuna George. Our podcast is the perfect place to start your journey towards becoming the best version of yourself. So come on, let’s join the conversation and find out what sets your soul on fire.

Az, welcome.

Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you. Thank you.

It’s a pleasure. Long time in the coming.

It is, yes.

And we’re definitely in the same kind of space, the same mission, is supporting firefighter health, wellness, physical, spiritual, mental, and we’re definitely in the same space there. So it’s a pleasure to have you on the show.

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

I’m looking forward to the conversation.

Fantastic. So, AZ, tell us a little bit about who you are and kind of what brought you to what you’re doing today in this world.

I think the coolest thing about what I do is actually not the fact that I was a firefighter. Of course we know it’s the best job in the world. I would never deny that, but I feel like supporting the health and wellness of firefighters is my greatest honour. And so after retirement, I like to say I was retired approximately 45 seconds when I decided to pursue my PhD.

So I uprooted my life from Illinois where I had lived for 30 years, uprooted my life and moved to Oklahoma. Yes, Oklahoma. You heard me correctly. And I went all in. I bought a house. I mean, I’m staying in Oklahoma. But I started my PhD at Oklahoma State University in the fall of 2024.

People ask me, why did you do that? Exactly. Because as you can probably tell, I’m quite a non-traditional student. I took a 30-year gap between my master’s and my PhD.

So why did I want to do that?

And I think the thing that is most important to me is that we don’t have enough people translating the research for firefighters. The research is getting done. Fantastic research coming out of all kinds of labs. Dr. Mark Abel, my advisor, Jay Dawes, Rob Orr in Australia, Jacob Mota in Texas, Drew Gonzalez in Texas.

Very few people are actually translating that research for the end user. And so that’s my purpose in life, translating that research for the end user.

Love it. Love it.

Yes, we need that so much. And in the fire service, we’re very accustomed to decision-making based around facts, around stats, around numbers and figures and evidence base.

Saying that, what are some of the biggest surprises that you saw going through this that you didn’t expect after 20-some-odd years in the fire service?

Well, it’s really interesting. When I started in the fire service in 2004, I remember thinking that a lot of the things that my chief was saying to us regarding health and wellness — now I’m not talking about fire tactics and strategies — I remember thinking, that doesn’t sound right.

I’m very new to this whole job, but what he’s saying doesn’t sound scientifically correct. And as it turns out, what he was saying was not scientifically correct.

So I think my biggest surprise was the fact that a lot of the fire service was previously kind of based on dogma. We do it this way because we’ve always done it this way because I said so.

It is such a refreshing surprise now that things like Science to the Station, Dr. Sarah Jenkins’ project Science to the Station, and I have a project with a collaborator called Seven Minute Science. It’s really surprising to me that firefighters are kind of eating that up.

And I think the important thing is that we have found people that are actually storytellers. No one wants to look at charts and graphs. They want to know what story the data is telling.

So I guess that’s two surprises: the fact that fire service was not scientific and now we’re stepping into the science. Super happy about that.

[00:05:00]

So besides storytelling, what have you found that really resonates with firefighters to start to embrace this new information and really start to understand the science behind it a little bit better?

Yes, I know you’re going to be shocked, but when we talk to males about testosterone, they’re very interested.

So that is one way I get the conversation started about the importance of sleep and physical fitness training and nutrition.

Listen, your testosterone is tanking as you go throughout the fire service. And it’s not just males, it’s females too. Their hormones are tanking.

That definitely captures their interest.

And the other thing that I find very impactful for them is that the top four things that take firefighters’ lives — our top four mortality risks — they’re all tied back to sleep. They’re all tied back to nutrition. They’re all tied back to physical fitness training. And to some measure, they’re also tied back to mental health and wellness.

So it’s all tied together.

[00:06:00]

Well, I can attest. Going through burnout myself, which ultimately ended my career in the fire service, my hormones were completely out of whack. My estrogen was through the roof and my testosterone was to the floor.

With blood work and tests — I did the Dutch test — I was able to correct it and bring it back. Not my twenties levels, but great levels compared to where I was during burnout.

So yes, it resonates deeply with me.

[00:09:00]

What would be your core principles for responders and sleep? Any must-do non-negotiables?

Yes. I think you need to have a plan.

Ninety percent of the firefighters I talk to, I ask, what’s your bedtime? And they say, what do you mean bedtime? I’m not a child.

Yes, you’re not a child. But if you don’t have a bedtime, you don’t have a plan.

The average adult needs seven to nine hours. That means seven to nine hours in bed. You’re never going to get that amount of sleep, but you need the opportunity.

We don’t have much control on duty. But I’m pretty sure no department mandates you stay up until two in the morning.

If you’re still playing cards at two in the morning and we get a box alarm, you’ve got zero sleep. I’ve got four or six.

Control what you can control.

And off duty, we love our side jobs. But those severely cut into rest and recovery time.

Maybe don’t plan to work that side job on your first day off. Make it dedicated to rest and recovery.

[00:11:00]

What about naps?

Oh my gosh. My favourite topic. I love naps.

Unless they interfere with nighttime sleep, they are powerful.

Keep naps 20–30 minutes so you stay in light sleep. Or a full 90-minute sleep cycle.

There’s controversy. But if you’re truly sleep deprived, maybe 180 minutes is okay, as long as it doesn’t interfere with nighttime sleep.

And then there’s the Nappuccino. Developed by the Department of Defense.

Sixty to eighty milligrams of caffeine, then a 20–30 minute nap. You wake up as caffeine kicks in. You feel fantastic.

[00:14:00]

Of the four pillars — sleep, nutrition, physical fitness, mental health — is there a number one?

Yes. Sleep.

I call them upstream interventions.

We’ll never know how many lives a smoke detector saved. But we know they work.

Sleep is the most upstream of all upstream interventions.

When you sleep adequately:

• Nutritional choices improve

• You’re more likely to train physically

• Mood and behaviour improve

If you can’t do it all, sleep. Everything gets better.

[00:17:00]

Let’s talk exercise for health versus exercise for performance.

They’re different.

American College of Sports Medicine guidelines:

• 150 minutes moderate cardio per week

• 2 resistance sessions per week

Less than 20% of firefighters meet minimum exercise parameters for health.

Not even walking 30 minutes five days a week.

We need firefighters healthy first.

Performance training is intentional training to improve job tasks.

Random acts of fitness — CrossFit, marathon training, bodybuilding — may improve VO2 max or muscle mass. But they may not improve performance on the fireground.

Example:

If we need rotational power to strike a Halligan, medicine ball rotational throws might transfer.

Progression:

1. Health baseline

2. Performance-specific training

3. Gear + job task training

That’s where the magic happens.

[00:24:00]

Working out in gear?

No study says it’s terrible. But no study says it’s great.

Gear impacts:

• Gait

• Joint kinematics

• Centre of gravity

• Range of motion

Strength coaches don’t put football players in full pads to bench press.

Job task training in gear makes sense. Random workouts in gear? Probably not.

[00:27:00]

Creatine.

It is not a steroid.

It’s three amino acids. You make it daily. But you operate in a deficit.

To get 5 grams from milk?
200 cups.

From cod?
Five pounds.

Safe. Effective. Most researched supplement out there.

Benefits:

• Increased muscle mass

• Increased strength and power

• Bone geometry improvements

• Cognitive benefits in sleep deprivation

• Reduced anxiety and depression symptoms

• TBI protection and recovery

• Lower heart rate, sweat rate, and core temperature in athletes

Firefighters routinely see core temperatures of 102°F.

If creatine can help buffer that? Huge win.

Dosage:

• 5 grams daily

• Or 0.1g/kg body weight

• Acute sleep deprivation: 20g split doses

No need for “pink female creatine.”
Creatine monohydrate. Third-party tested.

[00:44:00]

Big message?

We have to get rid of all-or-nothing thinking.

On the wagon. Off the wagon.

Extreme personalities make great firefighters. But terrible long-term health habits.

Better:

15-minute walk.
Hydrate properly.
Do it for life.

Middle ground wins.

[00:48:00]

What have you learned about yourself as a coach?

Curiosity works better than telling people what to do.

Tell me more about that.
What are you hoping to obtain?

Motivational interviewing works.

A bad coach is a gatekeeper.

A good coach helps people become independent.

[00:52:00]

Fire Rescue Wellness Podcast:

Brings research, resources, and the “so what, now what” to firefighters.

Over 200 episodes.

Seven Minute Science:

• 7 minutes

• 4 slides

• No tiny graphs

• Must include “so what, now what”

Free to register at:

www.firerescuewellness.org

Also on Instagram and LinkedIn.

[00:56:00]

Thank you so much for joining me today.

Thank you so much.

[00:57:00]

All right everyone, hopefully you enjoyed this great episode with Annette AZ.

Check out her website and her resources.

Until next time, stay well.

All right. That’s a wrap.